Hi everyone.
Im Tim and currently just finishing my 1st Year at 6th form and will therefore be beginning my university application process shortly.
I am very interested in both Maths & Physics and am considering the Joint honors course of the two subjects which is offered by Warwick University.

However I have heard some people who say the joint honors course may not be the best option as you lose out on various parts of each subject, such as the experiemental side of physics which I'm not too fused about since I prefer the theory anyways and the general flexability offered in the single courses.

Was just wondering if some people on here could give me their opinions on the course, especially if you doing it yourself. And advice on which course may be best bearing in mind I enjoy both subjects alot, (but maybe maths just a little bit more).

Any advice and opinions would be greatly appriciated!
Cheers in adavance

Tim

Hey Tim,

Of the people I know doing MathsPhys at Warwick, they're all enjoying it. It's a very tricky course; they seem to have to do all the hard stuff from Maths, and the hard stuff from Physics :D You don't have to worry about compromising on either subject because you basically do two degrees stuck together :P

At Warwick at least, there is an enormous choice of modules, and you can dictate to a large degree what you learn, and which direction you go. As an example, second year maths students have to do this very technical module called Algebra II; for MathsPhys students, it isn't compulsary, but they can do it if they want, and will get credit for it.

There's probably MathsPhys students around who can explain the above a lot better, but I do have some advice. If you do BSc or MMath at Warwick, you are allowed (and encouraged) to do a LOT of physics modules as part of your course. In my first year I did Special Relativity, Mechanics, Particle Physics and Quantum! So you can cultivate your physicsy side while still doing maths. Maybe something to think about?

In any case, good luck with your research!

Cheers for the info cj

who actually believed this one?

Hey,

I took the maths physics program in my first year, and decided to change to maths for my second. The main reason for this was that I preferred the highly theoretical nature of maths courses to physics, which to me consisted of a lot of fact learning without much explanation. I wanted to develop a good theoretical knowledge of maths before applying it to physical problems, and this for me was best realised by switching to maths by itself. This is just my personal opinion however, and a lot of people get frustrated with the attention to detail in maths.

In the first year, most of the core modules in maths are also core for maths phys, so if you decide to switch from maths phys to straight maths it shouldn't be a problem. Also, conversely, the majority of physics modules are options for mathematicians in the first year (and, in fact, the second). It is therefore possible to cover essentially the same ground in both courses, so there's no need to make a definitive selection from the start - take which options sound most interesting to you and go from there, there's plenty of time to decide.

In the second year, however, the core material for each program differs a lot more, so I believe it would be best to have come to a firm decision on what you prefer by then.

I knew you change after the first year, glad to hear it doesnt disadvantage you when doing so, cheers Nick

just give it up, no one is buying it

Buying what?
If you think this thread is some kind of a joke then you must have one shit sense of humour!
Stop with the unproductive posts already.

well maybe i'm just cynical, but let me refer you to this thread: http://warwickmaths.org/forum/banter/not-sure-if-right-place

and see if you notice a pattern developing.

And a thread where-by someone is introducing themselves is similar to me doing research in the university course I wanna do how exactly?

I could be wrong, but I don't honestly believe a 17 year old who's just done As levels is going to have the balls to post on a forum full of 20 year old 1337 mathematicians and ask about a degree course.

If you are real, what college do you go to?

Why not? Its hardly a terrifying task, I was looking for some kind of forums on the Warwick uni website but couldnt find one, but found this site on google and thought ehh this will do.
Have had a couple of helpful replies too exlcuding yourself.
And my sixth form is Blessed George Napier school in Banbury if your that desperate to know.

You could have looked that up on goooogle no problems. It's just we've had a lot of account spoofing here recently so even if you are real I still don't believe you but to be honest it doesn't make much difference anyway because you got the information you were seeking.
If you want my opinion then I'd say what course you do is probably less important than where you go so make sure you find uni that you like. (of course that was a joke because you don't really exist).

I don't see what you have to gain by this line of inquiry Richard.

if your that desperate to know

Right Alex, you are disgusting. I can only tell the difference between the account of the guy who started this thread and your fake account because of the difference in spelling and the join dates (and how did you make it look as though your fake account is six days old)? This isn't funny. If I had exec powers I'd be sorting this out now. As it is, I expect everyone who is on the exec to bring a halt to this at once. It stops now. I can't believe one of my own friends is doing this.

That's right "Colin", you tell 'em. Also I can think of at least 6 different things I can gain 'by this line of enquiry'.

That's pretty good, I only gained 4 from mine, and a complimentary harpoon.

OMFG!
What is wrong with you people?!?

hay really i cant understand what happen in this web site some one who still u account some one who said some thing no good .
friends we are here for sharing the information not for doing something bad!
let the talk and try to solve the math
and every thing u said just kidding
if is that just joke it is ok friend .
sorry just kidding
hhh
thanks for all

I have no idea what you just said!
Thats real terrible grammar, (no offence, but still)

OMFG!
What is wrong with you people?!?

I'm feeling that way at the moment. I'm the real Colin, I promise. Should warn you that the post by 'fahdaldapy2002' is a fake. There are several fake versions of that account and one real one. That post, and the one apparently made by me, are near copies of actual posts made by the real accounts. If you want the whole sorry story you can find it on other threads. But don't worry, if you do come to warwick, you shouldn't find much behaviour like this.

Who did you mean mr.colin ?

Just in case anyone hasn't realised this, there are currently at least three fake versions of my account on the forums, and if neccesary you can tell them apart by the names and pictures. You'll notice that the above two posts were both made by different fake accounts. They are just making fun of me. Never mind, they haven't done anything hurtful yet and I'm supposed to be somewhere in five minutes. Well, have fun larking about guys.

Lol this whole thread has gone to shit!
Anyone out there who can give us some more helpful replies?

The Maths department has a better reputation than the Physics department and offers better support in the first year*, so doing a Maths degree with Physics options has these advantages.

*Not that I can prove this.

Yeah.. if you're not actually concerned about getting the MMathPhys, but are instead just interested in the two subjects, I reckon it's better to focus on one, and take options in the other.

Would prefer to get the MMathPhys though to be honest
Quite a proud thing to put against your name I reckon!

Oy vey.

Tim, on behalf of WMS my apologies. I am, believe it or not, president of this ridiculous bunch, and I'm about as fed up with this thread as you probably are. Even if you were someone with a fake account, which I'm pretty convinced you're not, you still don't deserve that level of treatment.

People, this, right here, this is why I hate the forums.

Anyway, I shall attempt to answer your original question. I've just finished my third year at Warwick, doing straight maths. At school I would have considered myself as interested in mathematics and theoretical physics. But to be honest, the amount of choice you're afforded at Warwick is more than enough for you to practically take a maths and physics degree without the stigma of actually having "physics" in your degree title.

I jest, but there are upsides and downsides. The big upside is, for the joint degree the entrance requirements are set by the physics department, not the maths department, and are in fact a good bit lower. Maths is now up to three As and an A at AS-level plus a pass at STEP I think (they're getting more complicated every year, that's probably completely wrong), which is hard. MathsPhys is definitely a lower offer. Moreover, if you decide after a year that you like maths more, you can switch (provided your grades are good enough) to a straight maths degree without too much hassle. (Yes, there's paperwork, but you don't have to repeat first year.)

The downsides raise their head more once you've got here. It's niggling annoyances really, like not having access to the maths workrooms because you're a member of the physics department, and they're supposed to (but don't) provide you with similar facilities. (That said, you can in during office hours by going round the back, it's really not difficult.) I should also warn you that there's a general good-humoured deprecation of joint-degree students by mathematicians, but nothing more than a bit of banter.

Secondly, the MathsPhys, MathsStats and MORSE people have separate lectures in first year from the Maths people (simply owing to the fact that they won't all fit in the same room), which necessitates different lectures. The Maths department, unfortunately, has a certain contempt for joint-degree students and... well, let's just say they don't always end up with the same quality of lectures as the maths people do.

Thirdly, and perhaps less importantly, one module that mathematicans take in the first year is deemed to not fit in the MathsPhys degree, and is replaced by worksheets, making the module that comes after it in second year (which is core for MathsPhys) a good bit harder. Work will overcome that though. (For the record the module is MA134 Geometry and Motion, whose omission makes MA231 Vector Analysis harder.)

Whether or not you decide to do MathsPhys, though, the breadth of options is such that whatever your taste you can tailor your options to do whatever you want. The "normal load" is 120 CATS (read credit points), but you're not constrained and many people take more than that. This is largely because of something complicated called the Seymour formula, which means that if you do more than the normal load you get extra marks for doing so.

Anyway, my point is, for straight maths you have 90 CATS of core modules that you have to take (meaning at least 30 CATS of options that you choose), and you can fill the rest up with whatever you like, be that physics, stats, economics, history of art, you name it. With MathsPhys, it looks like it's 102 CATS (which means at least 18 CATS for options), and the physics department tend to be slightly less flexible with options (though in theory they shouldn't be).

The upshot is, you're slightly more constrained with options in MathsPhys, but if the added constraints are in fact what you'd do anyway then it may well be worth it, especially for the entrance requirements, if you can live with slightly less maths.

I think the best way is to come to an open day at some point, the next is on Saturday 20th September; see http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/visits/opendays for more details. That way you can get a feel for both departments and actually see the place before making up your mind.

I hope that answer - which was longer than I intended it to be! - was helpful. Either way, you won't start until September 2009, by which point I will have graduated. So unless I end up back at Warwick on a PhD, good luck with choosing - wherever you choose, you'll enjoy it no end. But just to scare you - since it could be you writing this message in, ooh, maybe three years time - everything at university goes fast, whether you like it or not. So whatever you do, make the most of it.

Two final things to everyone else. One, if there's any MathsPhys people still out there - SammyP06 I'm looking at you - please feel free to share your experiences. And two, if there's any more treatment of newcomers like that I shall have no qualms about banning all of you and/or shutting down the forum entirely - you have been warned.

Dave McCormick
WMS President, 2008/9

Blackscorpion, I can't continue lurking after reading that.
According to general knowledge and xkcd, adding anything that isn't pure mathematics next to your name just isn't worth it.

Plus, I feel that if you're motivated by interest more than anything else, it might be worth it to actually do a full on maths degree and study the physics by yourself (as the physics department seems to have a more handwavy approach to the mathematics underlying the physical theories, as Tom (our beloved Talks Coordinator, now graduated) gave a few examples.).

Wow cheers Dave!

Hey there,

I am in the third year of my Maths & Physics degree so I hope I can be of some assistance.

Please do not worry about not getting enough Maths or (particularly) Physics on the joint course. I managed to get away with these modules in my first two years:

First year core:

MA106 Linear Algebra
MA124 Mathematics by Computer
MA131 Analysis
MA132 Foundations
MA133 Differential Equations
PX101 Quantum Phenomena
PX120 Electricity and Magnetism
PX121 Thermal Physics I
PX129 Tutorial
PX132 Mechanics A
PX145 Physics Foundations

My first year options:

MA117 Programming for Scientists
MA125 Introduction to Geometry
PX109 Relativity
PX118 Waves
PX144 Introduction to Astronomy
PX147 Introduction to Particle Physics

Second year core:

MA209 Variational Principles
MA231 Vector Analysis
MA244 Analysis III
MA250 PDE
PX261 Mathematical Methods for Physicists II
PX262 Quantum Mechanics and its Applications
PX263 Electromagnetic Theory and Optics
PX264 Physics of Fluids
PX265 Thermal Physics II

My second year options:

MA222 Metric Spaces
MA243 Geometry
MA249 Algebra II: Groups and Rings
MA251 Algebra I: Advanced Linear Algebra
PX267 Hamiltonian Mechanics

This year my core modules are:

MA3D1 Fluid Dynamics
PX382 Quantum Physics of Atoms
PX383 Quantum Physics of Solids
PX384 Electrodynamics
PX424 Physics Group Project
PX429 Scattering and Spectroscopy

And I am still getting a taste for all the options this year.

N.B. I have taken significantly more modules than necessary each year, so bear in mind that if you want to do a similar set of options you will have to do a lot more work for less than proportionally more credit.

In the third and fourth years the number of mathematics modules available skyrockets (all Maths modules are available as options - you must choose fewer though) so you will have to be selective, and unlike Mathematics students you have core modules so your degree isn't quite so customisable, but presumably as you are interested in Maths&Phys you won't begrudge having to do Physics modules.

You will certainly be able to do enough Maths modules to keep on top of your game in one particular area of Maths (Analysis, Algebra, Geometry) i.e. you will be able to study all of the key modules in that field, or you can continue to study a few bits and pieces from all over the Mathematical spectrum. But with wise module choices you can certainly be a top-rate Mathematician. (My Analysis 1 lecturer Mark Pollicott graduated from Warwick in Maths and Physics - albeit a while ago - and went on to get a PhD in Maths and then be a Professor of it, so there you go.)

There is a second year maths module called Algebra II: Groups and Rings which is (used to be-- there is a new lecturer) basically a ritual massacre of Maths students and luckily MathPhys students don't have to do it. I chose it as an option, so you can keep up with the Maths students in the kudos tables if you must!

I have thus far studied all `fundamental' theoretical physics modules - anything to do with electromagnetism or mechanics or quantum mechanics - I imagine this is the type of Physics you are into if you are going for MathPhys. I haven't been able to study any astronomy (beyond first year introduction) which is a shame, or modules such as geophysics, global warming, power generation, the weather, etc., which is less so.

So to summarise, I have never felt disadvantaged in my options by my degree course. I don't feel like I'm not specializing: I want to do Theoretical Physics for which this is surely the most appropriate degree.

Any questions just fire away. And good luck with your applications!

Hey cheers for the info.
I figured this post long since dead.
I finished my UCAS app last week, applied for this course and the single maths at warwick and the single maths and joint applied maths & theoretical physics at birmingham.
But at the moment I reckon this course is my primary choice.
Just gotta wait for my offers now...
I heard warwick are rather fond of conditional offers, this true?
I hope so since I should be alright in terms of getting the required grades since I already have an A grade A2 maths since I did it early.

But likewise, if you are on the maths degree, you get a silly level of customisability. The maths department let you take basically any module from any subject, unless there is a good reason to stop you. The fact that you have no core in the third year, and only have to do a minimum of 57 CATS of maths per year (90 if on the MMath degree), which translates as a little less than 50% of a standard year's workload (75% for MMath) means that if you want to do a lot of physics, you still can. The only difference is that you will probably end up doing more maths during the first 2 years (most of which you would have had to do anyway). Besides, there is reason to believe that Algebra II is going to be less of a ritual massacre this year. The same lecturer is, however, doing Algebra I instead, which I think you may have to do either way (check this though)

However, you can switch from one degree course to the other after your first year with no major headaches, so do what you think is wisest and remember that for the first year, you can still change your mind.

And yes, (very hard) conditional offers are the norm here. I suggest having a good look at past STEP papers, physics AEA, any other way to work your arse off improving your maths/physics skills.

Was at the maths dept at warwick yesterday for the UKMT thing.
Had a look around.. its a very nice building.
Could quite happily see myself there!
Got offers from birmingham, now just waiting on warwick.

Well I blates got the grades and so will be starting this course in about 5 weeks.
So see you guys soon...

Hey, good to hear that! I hope we'll be seeing you at discussion groups!

Cheers man, I'll see ya around.
And tbh I reckon that "Richard hp" dude owes me a pint for doubting my post and filling it with cynical comments like a year ago.
Feel free to inform him of this... haha

Yeah that's entirely true, a lot of us here have been thinking the exact same thing, that it would be really good if you did get it so you could show Richard who's the man.

Tim, make sure to come along to the integrating factor this Wednesday, should be lots of fun!

Yeah, be sure to announce to everyone that you're arriving, we want to meet you! :P

Yeah I kinda missed it.
Only found out about it the next day during a lecture.
So yeah that sucks

Make sure you come to Discussion Groups, they're starting next Monday (week 4, October 25 2009 :P) with Cosmin talking about the Riemann Hypothesis.