I thought I'd post my reply to an email Gregory Skulnik, one of the election candidates for president, sent me here because:

I have a manifesto online, but basically I aim to:
[...]
GET A MORE PUBLIC FEEDBACK FORUM – so you can have your say.

Well, this pretty public.

Gregory outlines a few points in his email, and I'd just like to respond to a few here, and encourage debate.

So...

I am Gregory Skulnick, and am running for President and Treasurer. I have a manifesto online, but basically I aim to:
GET MORE SOCIALS – 1 a year makes us the least active of all societies.

Well, okay, you're a first year yes? Which would mean that you've been here < 1 year. Quite a bold claim. Socials have always been a problem for the society, do we want The Warwick Mathematics Society do do organised binge drinking? Or something more refined? What about inviting a speaker to give a talk to us, and then following that with snacks and drinks? Oh we do that already?

ACTUALLY PUBLISH A MAGAZINE – so people get something regularly to tell them what the society and world of maths are up to. And something physical in return for the joining fee.

Can't argue with that one, I've made two them and let me tell you, it's really hard. No one will write for you, and everyone wants to use which just isn't easy to get right in a magazine format. But I'd have to agree with you on this one, the mathemagician has been absent for too long.

START MORE CRASH COURSES – speaks for itself, they are really helpful.

We rely on (mostly) first years actually saying what they want one on, that's the whole point, and if they don't do that what can we do? Just put some on anyway? That's not the idea.

CHANGE THIS VOTING SYSTEM – so the winners are representative, not voted for by 30 friends.

First up, for the elections to count, they have to be quorate, which stands at around 76 votes, not 30 friends.
If you're wanting STV because everyone in the Union wants to have it's children, then you may have a case, but hardly any of the elections have a significant number of candidates and last year we used STV and I can say: Not a single vote got transferred. Why? Well the Union doesn't actually use STV, and they use some very strange bastardisation of it, I think just to make people think it's fairer. The point is, in all the elections last year, the top people got enough votes to win outright, and no eliminations were required.

CHALLENGE THE UNI TO LOOK INTO CHEAPER AND BETTER MATLAB ACCESS – besides illegal downloads, you’re stuck in the Learning Grid when the Computer rooms are in use.

Fine. But you can always log into primrose and use it on there. Though that does imply you want to use Matlab.

STOP THE STARTING LOGIC BOOK FIASCO – as if maths students need to pay £40 for a book of un-assessed exercises.

Isn't the course optional? If you don't want to pay, don't do the course.

GET A MORE PUBLIC FEEDBACK FORUM – so you can have your say.

Well, we can do that one right away. Just click 'add new comment' or 'reply'!

I should probably respond to this one:

ACTUALLY PUBLISH A MAGAZINE – so people get something regularly to tell them what the society and world of maths are up to. And something physical in return for the joining fee.

Yeah, I agree that the mathemagician should have been published a while ago and that a lot of the blame has to fall on my shoulders. That said, having virtually no articles at any given moment, I was basically faced with the following choices:

• Publish with what little I had and put large amounts of filler. I could have done that, but what would be the point? I don't see the point in doing something at all unless it's done right.

• Write 6 articles myself. I could have done this too but, apart from the significant workload, I didn't think many people would actually be interested in reading a magazine which would have basically amounted to "Cosmin's Number Theory Termly". Besides that, the job of the magazine editor is to try to delegate as much of the writing to other people so that we get a diverse enough result at the end. I've still written one and will write another in the following days, basically because I have no choice.

• Wait until I had a selection of articles that I was happy with (or any articles at all, in fact). This is what I chose to do and obviously, in retrospect, it has largely failed. What made this even harder was the fact that I was promised articles by a number of people (at least 5-6 in all), which I had waited for and never received.

To answer your second part, the mathemagician's purpose never was to "regularly to tell them what the society and world of maths are up to". The society informs its members of what it's up to with the website, regular e-mails and a huge noticeboard in the maths department, all of which are much more efficient than a termly magazine. As for what the "world of maths" is up to, you'll find that there isn't that much to write about that your average undergraduate would find interesting: notable breakthroughs that are relevant to more than a handful of people usually happen every few years at the very least. As for getting something physical in return for the joining fee (which in itself is a strange statement: we're not the cheese society, the things we aim to provide people with are first and foremost of an intellectual nature) they've already gotten free food and drink at a number of socials as well as revision guides.

Finally, I find it rather ironic that, if you cared so much for the Mathemagician, you didn't even attempt to send in an article. After all, it's not the hardest thing in the world and you get 15 pounds for it, which, considering it wouldn't have taken more than 2 hours, is more than a lot of jobs pay.

Since I've gotten this far, let me say a few things about the other points:

GET A MORE PUBLIC FEEDBACK FORUM – so you can have your say.

No comment on this one...

GET MORE SOCIALS – 1 a year makes us the least active of all societies.

Besides what Steven said, have you ever turned up to Discussion Groups? If you had, you would have realised that we go to the pub after each one (twice a week, on Mondays and Thursdays), which most societies would consider a "social" (and if you don't like DG you're perfectly free to come to the pub only). That makes us quite active for people who are genuinely interested.

STOP THE STARTING LOGIC BOOK FIASCO – as if maths students need to pay £40 for a book of un-assessed exercises.

Strictly speaking, you don't need to use even it if you take the course since the assignments are optional for maths students. You can quite easily get 100% on that module without even opening the book.

CHANGE THIS VOTING SYSTEM – so the winners are representative, not voted for by 30 friends.

I don't see where you've gotten this idea from. I don't even have 30 friends (much less 30 friends that would all be willing to vote for me :P) in the maths dept. Besides that, what alternative system would you propose to which that wouldn't apply? Let only the active members vote? That would make you unable to vote for yourself I believe.

Thank you.

P.S. I hope I haven't come across as too harsh on some of those points. Don't take any of it personally but I think some of the claims you've made are fairly ridiculous.

I do not normally use the forum (as a matter of fact this is my first post), however i would like to have my say on this.

Firstly i commend Greg for standing... He is clearly aspirant, and he deserves commendation for that.
Of his policies, they are not all excellent, however, it is clear to see that he has looked into what is important to him, and presumably other people. Of course this is largely from a first year perspective, but again... it deserves commendation.

On a different note, as i am running for Magazine editor, i thought i should put in a few words.
I am aware that the magazine has failed in the past due to a lack of desire of society members to write... However, personally i would have written... had I actually known that the magazine was in existence! My point is that if the magazine had been maintained as a regular occurrence, then perhaps people might see it worth their time writing for it... What would be the point in writing an article if you are unsure that it will ever be published?
I am sure that i will recognise these difficulties if i get the position, however, as i state in my manifesto, i do not believe that the magazine should be entirely dependent on members' contribution... The society have a right to the magazine, regardless of whether they wrote it or not.
From speaking to several first years about the society, many have said that they don't intend to maintain their subscription for next year; this was on the basis that since they do not attend the discussion groups (too mathsy), do not read the revision guides (already have lots of resources), and know little of the crash-courses, or don't like the maths cafe, they don't get anything from the society! I think a magazine which is interesting to all levels of the society, may help to reduce the number of one-year members. I am aware that this is ambitious, but i hope that perhaps i may have the drive and determination to see this through... We'll just have to wait and see.

Have fun.
Owen.

Minor problem though, the mathemagician is free to everyone. So there is still no gain for people to stay in WMS if there is no other benefit.

What it does give us is some positive impressions if people like the magazine.

I definitely agree that Greg should be commended for his efforts in putting forward new ideas and ways to improve the society.

Well...

I do not believe that the magazine should be entirely dependent on members' contribution... The society have a right to the magazine, regardless of whether they wrote it or not.

Well, then what do you put in the mathemagician if you don't have any articles ?

From speaking to several first years about the society, many have said that they don't intend to maintain their subscription for next year; this was on the basis that since they do not attend the discussion groups (too mathsy), do not read the revision guides (already have lots of resources), and know little of the crash-courses, or don't like the maths cafe, they don't get anything from the society!

The WMS is a mathematics society, the benefits for the students being in the society should be mathematics based, not just because they can get free food after some socials... And, mathematically, I think the society provides just about everything that is needed (except of course for the lack of mathemagicians).

P.S.:

Thank you.

:D

I am aware that the magazine has failed in the past due to a lack of desire of society members to write... However, personally i would have written... had I actually known that the magazine was in existence! My point is that if the magazine had been maintained as a regular occurrence, then perhaps people might see it worth their time writing for it... What would be the point in writing an article if you are unsure that it will ever be published?

I'm afraid the issue isn't that simple. To start with, there was a "Summer Issue" of the Mathemagician which we distributed in the maths dept and at our stall in Freshers' Week, so it wasn't entierly non-existent. I'm not sure how many more issues we would have had to produce for people to see it as a regular occurence, seeing that I had trouble getting material for even the first issue of the year. Furthermore, we had sent out a number of e-mails, posted a message on the front page as well as on the forums and had a note on the WMS noticeboard about it, so lack of information clearly should not have been a significant problem. The mere fact that I had stated in the last e-mail that we had virtually no material meant people could be rather certain that if their article was any good, they would get published (and get the 15 pounds).

I think a magazine which is interesting to all levels of the society, may help to reduce the number of one-year members.

I find this somewhat doubtful, especially since one does not need to be a member of the society in order to get the Mathemagician: it's usually freely distributed in the undergraduate workroom. I would, however, be curious as to what the members you're talking about were expecting of the society when they joined.

P.S. I agree with Alex and Sam's points, I started writing this before they had posted. (No, it didn't take me 30 minutes, I was doing other things while writing it :p)

All i can say is that i hope that if elected, i may be able to change this... I am not saying that it is not difficult, and i may be wrong: i am sure i will face all the difficulties that have been had in the past, but there is a chance that perhaps i may be able to see a way round them.

I am passionate about writting, possibly even more so than i am about maths, and I hope that may help in managing to edit the magazine. Instead of taking a negative attitude towards what could come in the future, why not just hope that the future ed might turn things around for the better? Think about the opportunity for change in a positive light, as opposed to stiffling future possibilities.

Owen

Owen, I have no doubt you'll be a great editor for the mathemagician - you're very committed with whatever you do, and surely have lots of interesting things to write about. But, as said Cosmin, you can't fill the mathemagician with only your own articles, and, as such, you're very much dependent on others writing articles...

Xedi.
You have no need to be concerned... I have no intention of filling the magazine with my own articles... Otherwise i would write a book. If i get the position, then i will start working on finding articles, perhaps for the first issue i will not even ask around the society, and wait to make an anouncement of the sort in the first issue... We will have to wait and see.

Best wishes.
Owen.

I hope I didn't give the wrong impression in my last post: in no way do I have a negative attitude towards anyone here nor was I trying to stifle future possibilities. I was simply contributing to the debate and providing my own point of view on the problem, which, I would think, could indeed help you turn things around in the future.

Hi,

I haven't got long to respond to that, as I have been annoyingly internetless all day. Ironic for the day that I said I would like to answer any questions.

I have tried to read as many of the comments as possible. My bullet points have fed you are format for your verbal bullets it seems. So, in kind, and very quickly:

• Cosmin, I was not accusing anyone of malintent with regards to the magazine. I work from my perspective, and that sadly is that I have never recieved one. Now, I appreciate all your points, and from my days editing the school newspaper, I remember being faced with very similar situations. People don't seem to want to actually write things, unless prodded immensely. However, I believe with a bit of publicity and delegation it shouldn't be too hard to produce one, and maybe distribute in lectures.

• darthsteven stated "Isn't the course optional? If you don't want to pay, don't do the course" in reference to the Starting Logic. This is reprehensible, module choice being based on your financial status is a horrible idea.

• Indeed I was implying that I would like to use Matlab.

• As for the voting system, I didn't want to offend anyone here either. It is just that I looked into the old news section, and found that last year's winners had recieved about 30 votes, so I believe that my suggestion was fair.

I am sorry for not fully responding, but I have not got time. Please comment back or speak to me in the day and I will try to respond.

Thanks, and sorry for any upset caused.

Gregory Skulnick

Sorry if my initial response was a bit dry. I never implied you were accusing anyone of malintent but, clearly, when saying "I believe with a bit of publicity and delegation it shouldn't be too hard to produce one" you are accusing me of incompetence (since I have failed to do something which "shouldn't be too hard"). I've tried to express in my earlier post why I think this is a harder problem than you seem to think. I'm not in any way taking this personally, I simply feel that when you make such a statement you should be able to back it up with concrete propositions, which I don't think you have.

P.S. With regard to the Starting Logic and Matlab points, I think you shouldn't confuse the job of the WMS and that of the SSLC. The WMS' "political power" within the department is fairly limited and changing things of that sort for the whole department is, as I see it at least, not really within our scope.

lol "propostions"

I agree with what Dave said at the hustings. We consider ourselves to be more like a civil service than a government. I agree that problems like the logic textbook should not be ignored. That is why we have an SSLC. They are quite active and have actually succeeded in getting the University to do stuff. The sandwich van that comes by at noon was their idea. Since they are doing their job, we have no reason to compete with them. We have different jobs to do. For example, we respond to course problems by directly helping people to cope with them. If we are too busy pretending to be the SSLC, who will be left to provide this support?

lol "propostions"

Your point being? :p

P.S. What Ben said about the SSLC is exactly what I meant.

Well we have no danger of losing the maths and support aspects of our society. We have exec positions that have a mandate to provide these services. There's also quite a lot of crossover between the SSLC and the exec, I know that both Dave and Rajiv are on the SSLC. So it's inevitable that aspects will begin to cross over, which I suppose is a positive thing; since if the SSLC is the government, and we are the service, it's good to have the cross-communication like this.

Cross-communication is one thing, making the SSLC's job ours is another. Cross-communication is not only good as well as necessary, but we should always keep in mind our respective roles...

Our role is free food right?

Seems to me that as far as a lot of members are concerned, it is...

For me that's the case, it's the free food for the mind that makes it all.

I'm in it for the tail

"Shouldn't be too hard" certainly came out wrong, and is a horrible euphamism. Let us stop this endless accusation/apology war. You are not incompetent. I know that I am missing certain vital knowledge on the propositions, but I certainly believe them to be achievable, even if that requires me doing a bit more research if I were to get voted in.

A lot of people commenting on WMS/SSLC too. It is a fair point. I don't necessarily believe it our place to lobby the Uni, but I do think that we are better placed to pick up student issues, even just to pass them on to the SSLC.

Has anyone got a realistic idea to improve the magazine? How do you think it could be done?

Greg.
Read my manifesto. I am ambitious to make this work, have experience in writing, and have had success in areas that i have dedicated myself to before. I think that it is early days to worry about details of how to improve the magazine. I went through several of my ideas at the hustings, and have much more to add to that... So lets hope that i'm elected!

Have fun.
Owen.